Joe Hart smiles as the conversation turns to the chaos that has reduced set-pieces in the Premier League to little more than ‘16 people just having a scrap in the six-yard box’.
During a 20-year career as a goalkeeper in England, Scotland and, briefly, Italy, Hart rarely had to face the level of carnage that now accompanies almost every corner or free kick, with players wrestling in the penalty area and keepers under siege.
Having transitioned into one of the most highly-rated pundits in the game, Hart insists Premier League bosses will eradicate the problem by changing the rules in future, admitting that it has become almost impossible for match officials to control.
‘What are you supposed to do?’ he says. ‘How are you supposed to govern all that? I think they’ve put themselves in a position where unless it’s really, really bad, it’s hard to pull it up.
‘So something will be done about it. Of course it will, because football, the Premier League, doesn’t want these constant conversations. It’s taken away from all the great football that goes on and all the incredible storylines.
‘When we do Match of the Day, we have officials in with us and we ask the question. They just say it’s impossible for VAR or a referee when, you know, 16 people are just having a scrap in the six-yard box.’
Joe Hart thinks refereeing the chaos of set-pieces is now extremely difficult
Even so, there is also admiration from a man who won two Premier League titles with Manchester City, and experienced life at the other end of the table with West Ham and Burnley, for the lengths teams will go to in pursuit of three points.
‘I know what it takes to win,’ says Hart. ‘So whilst it’s okay, then you’ve got to push the boundaries. You do whatever you can to win, right? Whatever’s within the rules, you do it.
‘If I was part of a team that was doing that and I was winning, I’d want to continue. The Premier League’s tough. You’ve got to find any advantage you can, especially when the levels are so high and there’s teams with endless budgets and top-quality players. You can’t just say, “let’s all just have a level playing field and have a kick around”. You’ve got to find ways to win.
‘I’ve got nothing against it. Obviously, when I sit back, it can be a bit frustrating, but I also will never, ever forget the feeling of trying to win and what I do. I totally get it.
‘Whilst it’s within the rules – just – you keep pushing and once you change them, the rules will get pushed from a different angle. That’s the beauty of this world and the analytics and the depth of research that goes into being a winning team. People are always going to find a way.’
Hart praised Arsenal keeper David Raya for the way he met the challenge head-on in Sunday’s 2-1 win over Chelsea at the Emirates that saw all three goals scored from corners.
As he prepares to take the mic for Liverpool’s trip to Wolves on Tuesday night as a pundit for TNT Sports, who are broadcasting a full programme of midweek Premier League fixtures, Hart believes the onus is on goalkeepers to fight back while the rules remain as they are.
‘Find a way,’ he adds. ‘You can literally give every single moment of your day, every single moment of your life to work out a solution.
Arsenal’s corners this season have been incredibly effective for the league-leaders
‘That’s what I loved about David Raya’s performance. I’m not saying this about any other goalkeeper, but he’s not looking for any excuses. He’s looking to do his best to stop the ball from going in the net, and if he gets help from the referee, great. If he doesn’t, then so be it.
‘He’ll deal with the situations that he’s in. That’s all you can do. There’s no point moaning about it. You can create as much protection as you can with your own players, but then you’ve just got to work really, really hard to get yourself in the best possible position to make it difficult for the opposition to score.
‘I know what it takes to be a Premier League goalkeeper, one of 20. You’ve got to be at an unbelievable level, and that’s no different right now.
‘They are all fully capable of being match winners, a lot of them. The majority of them are internationals, the best people to put on gloves in their country, and that’s no different in the Premier League.’
The other problem caused by so much contact between players at set-pieces is the inevitable VAR delays as officials try to sift through the video footage from every angle.
‘With players, coaches and teams doing whatever they can to win, we’re going to have these situations all the time,’ says Hart. ‘So it’s not going anywhere. Because the games are so tight, especially in the Premier League, there’s going to be such emotion around it. So what the answer is, I don’t know.
‘Once we went down that VAR route, this was inevitable. I don’t think you can take VAR out of it now. It would just cause too much controversy. And whilst it’s in, unfortunately, we’re going to have to go through these arduous checks because ultimately you want the right decision.
‘It happens in other sports. It’s tough because you can’t have it all. You can’t have the joy and the sensational moments and just living with “it’s a bad decision”. With the technology we’ve got now, you want to get it absolutely spot on. Sometimes that can take time.
‘We’re going to have gripes either way. I hoped that with the semi-automated (decisions), that would speed it up. But it’s just football finds its way. There’s such detail, such intricacies.’
David Raya impressed Hart for the way he handled the contest against Chelsea
Even then, the outcome can seem unsatisfactory. Take Igor Tudor’s frustration about the ‘home team referee’ after Fulham’s first goal against Tottenham was allowed to stand on Sunday despite Raul Jimenez’s challenge on Radu Dragusin a week after Spurs striker Randal Kolo Muani had an effort ruled out for a push on Arsenal’s Gabriel.
‘I totally get it,’ says Hart of Tudor’s reaction. ‘Humans in real tight, high-end situations. I’d probably do the same if I was in their position. I also realise that when has fairness ever played a part in elite sport?’
It’s 14 years since Hart was involved in the most dramatic final day in Premier League history as City came from behind to beat QPR and pip Manchester United to the title on goal difference.
City left it until the last game again two years later, albeit in less dramatic circumstances against West Ham, and Hart believes their title race with Arsenal is going down to the wire as well.
The Gunners have a five-point lead at the top going into their next game at Brighton on Wednesday. City, who face Nottingham Forest at the Etihad on the same night, have a game in hand and home advantage when they meet Arsenal next month.
‘It looks like it’s going that way, doesn’t it?’ says Hart. ‘You can’t rule out a dip in form or a real kick-on by someone, but at the moment it looks very much game by game like it’s going to toss and turn.
‘I don’t think either team is playing out of their skin. I’m excited for Manchester City at the moment because they’re finding a way to win, but when you start making kind of statement wins, that’s when it can all change.’
So who will be crowned champions, and what’s the secret to achieving those fine margins that decide title races?
‘I don’t know, it’s impossible to say,’ says Hart. ‘Who do I want to win it? Man City. Of course I do. But God knows. It’s twists and turns this season. I don’t have to stand by what I said or make these bold predictions.
‘What’s the point? I’m just going to enjoy it. I’m very much still in my football process of game by game. I’m working on Wolves versus Liverpool on Tuesday and that’s where my focus is at. But from an enjoyment point of view, I just want to sit back and watch it unfold.
‘Being able to concentrate on you and control the controllables sounds simple, but it’s true. You can’t be in the other camp, you can’t control how the opposition plays against other people. You can only control your game, the work that you’re doing.
‘I think Manchester City and Arsenal are both doing a good job in that. They’re playing to their strengths, they’re working on their weaknesses. Your medical staff become very important, having everyone fit and available, pulling in the same direction.
‘That’s why I think it’s going to be a really interesting finish, because it seems like both clubs have got that.’
At the other end of the table, three of Hart’s old clubs are involved in the fight for Premier League survival.
Burnley must get over their heartbreaking 4-3 defeat at home to Brentford as they head for Everton on Tuesday night, West Ham go to Fulham on Wednesday, and Tottenham are at home to Crystal Palace on Thursday.
Hart, seen interviewing Liam Rosenior, applies the same work ethic to punditry work as he did to goalkeeping at the highest level
‘It’s up for grabs, isn’t it?’ says Hart. ‘I think Burnley are showing traits of fighting. Obviously they’ll be absolutely devastated with what happened at the weekend. It’s going to be really tough for them.
‘West Ham and Tottenham have been in the league for a lot longer. But you’ve got to be able to just dig deep as a team, as a squad, as a fan base, and back your team to the very end. It’s not going to be enjoyable, but there’s great rewards for staying in this league.’
As a pundit for the BBC and TNT Sports, Hart has quickly established a reputation as one of the most insightful voices in the game since hanging up his gloves at Celtic two years ago at the end of a career that brought five titles and seven domestic cup successes in England and Scotland, as well as 75 caps for his country.
He doesn’t turn 39 until next month, an age when many keepers are still playing at the highest level, but Hart has no regrets whatsoever. ‘No, I put the gloves down and I felt good,’ he insists. ‘I felt really good. I was really pleased and proud of what I gave, and I was ready to move on with my life.’
Now, he enjoys applying the same meticulous approach he had as a player to his new craft in front of the camera.
‘I apply that in every single way. I apply it to how I’m sat here talking to you. I’ve only got one way of doing things when it comes to my work or my trade, whatever that may be.
‘I love to do it properly. I love to be prepared. I love to live in the moment that I’m doing it, and try and really feel what’s going on in and around me. And, yeah, I enjoy implementing that into my punditry work. That’s just how I’m wired.’
All the Premier League fixtures this week will be broadcast on TNT Sports and discovery+
